Update: I did a (failed) ketosis experiment on myself that you can read about here, here, here, and here.
Jimmy Moore is dropping weight with the fervor of a college wrestler right now on his experimental ketogenic diet. In fact, he’s lost about 47 pounds in the last 3 months, and he’s still going. He’s an awesome guy and he’s been struggling with his weight for a while now, so I’m psyched for him to say the least.
He gives updates every month or so on his progress, but he never tells his readers exactly WHAT he’s eating. I’m itching to know.
Now, Jimmy isn’t strictly Paleo: he eats full fat dairy, so even if he did report to us what he was eating, it wouldn’t be super helpful to a lot of people. I got to thinking what a ketogenic Paleo diet might look like. Without all that cheese and cream to assume the fat positions, it’d require a lot more tallow, lard, coconut oil, and coconut milk, as well as the fatty meats, eggs, nuts, and avocados.
Here’s a picture of one of Jimmy’s meals to give you an idea of the amount of dairy he’s eating (well, at least at this particular meal). I think that’s sausage, avocado, scrambled eggs, some sort of hot sauce, and heavy cream. By the way, I’m in no way criticizing Jimmy right now. If I could eat dairy, I probably would, and I think this meal looks amazing.
What’s ketosis?
Before I go any further with this, I’ll briefly explain what ketogenic means and why one would aspire to be on a ketogenic diet. Some say you need to eat fewer than 30 grams of carbs per day to be in ketosis. It may be fewer than that to get into a deep state of ketosis, and you must not eat too much protein either. So a ketogenic diet is high fat, low(ish) protein, and very low carb. More on that in a moment.
When you are in ketosis, your body is using ketones more than it normally would for energy. Ketones are made out of fatty acids in the liver in the absence of dietary glucose (carbs) so that your organs can continue to function properly even when you don’t have carbs. Some people say when you’re in ketosis your brain doesn’t get enough energy, but some would argue that the glucose your liver produces on its own when you’re in ketosis is more than enough to feed your brain.
Studies have shown that you can even train endurance activities at an elite level on a ketogenic diet. These people would fuel up with coconut butter instead of Powerade, and their bodies would get very good at using fat instead of glucose as fuel, as would yours if you ate a ketogenic diet for a while.
Isn’t it dangerous?
Ketosis has kind of a bad reputation, and that’s partly because there’s something called diabetic ketoacidosis, which is when a diabetic can’t use glucose as fuel (due to a lack of insulin or insulin resistance) and ketones start to build up in their blood. Too many ketones are not a good thing, but you can mitigate and monitor that on a healthy ketogenic diet. Jimmy uses the home blood tests to check his ketone levels in his blood, which seem to be more accurate than the urine tests. Here’s an interview with Jimmy and Dr. Lauren Noel that explains all that.
Ketosis can actually be therapeutic.
The fact is that you can lose a lot of weight eating a ketogenic diet. It’s been cited as beneficial for autism, alzheimer’s, seizure disorders, ADHD, and others.
I’m not necessarily even advocating this as a way of eating. After analyzing what it would take to get me into ketosis, I’m not sure I’d like it. I do think it’s a good idea for people suffering from myriad diseases and disorders, though. So below is what it would look like on a 2,000 calorie diet. No, everyone should not be on a 2,000 calorie diet, but that’s sort of an average between men and women’s caloric needs, so I thought I’d start there. Jimmy says he gets around 82% fat, 3% carbs, and 15% protein, so I tried to mimic that in my imaginary ketogenic diet for a day.
Imaginary Ketogenic Diet for A Day
Breakfast
4 slices bacon
1 egg
2 tablespoons extra bacon grease
Lunch
3 ounces salmon
1/2 cup onions sautéed
1/3 cup coconut milk
Cooked with 1 tablespoon coconut oil
Snack
10-12 macadamia nuts
Dinner
5 ounces porterhouse beef steak with 1/8″ fat
Cooked in 1 tablespoon tallow
Nutritional Breakdown (from www.nutritiondata.com)
Calories – 2013
Carbs (g) – 13.8
Fat (g) – 186
Protein (g) – 79.1
Carbs – 2.7%
Fat – 83.2%
Protein – 15.7%
Those percentages don’t add up to 100% and I don’t really know why. I can’t seem to get them to add up to 100% in nutritiondata.com or myfitnesspal.com. I think it’s because some of the individual foods are off a bit, but you get the point. It’s super high fat, super low carb, and low-ish protein. To compare, normal Americans eat anywhere from 200 to 400 grams of carbs a day. I normally get about 30% carbs, 30% protein, 40% fat (no, I’m not doing that on purpose…). Just as a comparison to someone on a non-low-carb Paleo diet.
Things to note…
One interesting thing I noticed when I was making this hypothetical diet was that there’s really no room for vegetables except for the paltry onions I included. I don’t necessarily think that vegetables are a necessary part of a healthy diet, but that’s only when you’re eating the whole animal, so to speak. If you eat organs, bone broth, AND the muscle meat from grass-fed/pasture raised animals and yolks from pastured hens, then you’re getting heaps of nutrients. But if you don’t, you’d really need to supplement on this diet.
One other interesting point came about when I was trying to think of all the fatty Paleo foods I could include. Of course avocado came up on my list, as well as lard, bacon fat, tallow, fatty meats, coconut oil, coconut milk, olive oil, and nuts. However, while one whole avocado contains 322 calories and 29 grams of fat, it also houses 18 grams of carbohydrates. I don’t know how I’ve overlooked that for so long. Those 18 grams alone would’ve more than doubled the carb count of this menu, so I omitted it. Just something to consider.
In Conclusion
If you try eating a ketogenic diet, I strongly recommend you make a menu like this for yourself and record your meals in one of the free diet trackers online so you know exactly what percentages of carbs, fat, and protein you’re getting. You’ll probably be eating more fat than you’ve ever eaten before and I’m assuming it might require some practice. It might be worth being diligent about it: at least in Jimmy’s experience, the further he went into ketosis, the more weight he dropped, at least when he wasn’t doing any exercise. When he was doing exercise his weight loss declined a little bit, but that’s a whole different topic.
Has anyone had any experience with this? Care to share?
 ketosis experiment on myself that you can read about here, here, here, and here. Jimmy Moore is dropping weight with the fervo){kind=link}
27 Comments
pbo
I thought the same thing when I saw how many carbs there were when you really start upping your avocado intake.
I am pretty sure though that with ketosis, its the net carbs you care about. So avocado may have more carbs than you think, however, a lot of it is fiber, so the net carbs stay pretty low.
I think staying below 30 NET carbs should keep you in ketosis, as long as you also keep the protein intake low.
Daytona
I and some diabetic buddies have been following a ketogenic diet for a while now. I’ve always billed myself as “ketogenic paleo”. Though I guess according to your definition I’m primal since I eat high-fat dairy like heavy cream and butter. :)
I just wanted to say that there is no need to so dramatically cut out vegetables. Some people are able to stay in ketosis eating 50+g of (total) carbohydrates in a day. My friends and I did well between 20-30g of carbohydrate. We were able to eat as much green vegetables as we wanted (e.g. lettuce, broccoli, kale) and there are other vegetables like bell peppers, green beans, cauliflower which if you tolerate them, are a great addition to a ketogenic diet. Don’t tell anyone but I’ve been able to sneak small portions of squash and sweet potato as well without screwing up my blood sugar or ketones. There are many different ways to combine foods and reach your macronutrient goals, it doesn’t have to be draconian.
Some have found it helpful to consider the ratio of macronutrients instead of absolute maximums. For example, for every 1g of carb, I eat 2g of protein and 4g of fat. Once you get used to what that looks like on a plate, it’s easy to eyeball the ratio without weighing and measuring everything.
paleozeta
30%cho+30%protein+60% fat?
you are eating a 120% diet….
Neely
paleozeta – Ha! Thanks for catching that. I’ll fix it. I was clearly tired when I wrote that…
Neely
Daytona – Thank you for writing in! I love hearing about this. Do you use the urine or blood tests to check your ketones? And have you been successful with your diabetes/overall health on this diet? Type 1 or type 2, may I ask? Also, are you active on this diet? I’d love to hear more.
Nancy Hill
Yeah, there are tons of low-glycemic veggies you can add to this, still staying very low carb after subtracting the fibre.
You can subtract the fibre from the carbs in the avocado, making it an excellent low-carb choice.
Jimmy’s amazing!
Debbie H.
I’ve had a similar experience to what Daytona describes above. I’ve been in nutritional ketosis since early July and typically eat about 35 g carbohydrate each day. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Fats are almost always 110 g or more, and protein around 60 g. Just for comparison, I’m 57 yo and postmenopausal, and maintain a Primal diet. My dairy intake consists of butter and heavy cream. LIke Daytona, I can indulge in the occasional butternut squash or sweet potato — about 1/2 cup works for me. I test my blood ketones daily with a glucose/ketone monitor and have lost 14 lbs. eating this way after struggling to lose any weight on a more moderate carb intake. Interestingly, what they say is true: being in ketosis does dramatically reduce appetite which I’ve found has led me to reduce calories without thinking about it. I track my food in myfitnesspal.com and have been surprised some days at how little I’ve eaten. Over the last three months my typical daily calories have dropped from an average of 1700 to around 1400, which has definitely contributed to the weight loss. So for me, calories do matter, though they may not for someone younger.
KMJvet
Even though it’s only 1 day’s menu, if you analyze that diet for micronutrients, did it come back as complete?
Neely
KMJvet – No, it wasn’t. Not for a lot of things. You should definitely supplement if you were eating like this with no organs, etc.
Bodhi
I’ve used ketosis quite a few times over the years. It always works for me. Right now I’m doing a 3 day pemmican fast. Nothing but pemmican for 3 days. There are a couple people with some good threads over on Mark’s Daily Apple Forum about how they are using Ketogenic diets.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread64225.html
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread64892.html
If you are an athlete you might find Ben Greenfield has a lot of good information on Ketogenic diets.
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/
And Dr. Peter Attia.
http://eatingacademy.com/
Dr Colin Champ, the Caveman Doctor has a great blog and podcast as well:
http://www.cavemandoctor.com/
Most of the time I don’t use as deep Ketosis as what Jimmy Moore is doing. But I think you can get lots of green leafy vegetables and Cruciferous vegetables in and stay around 3% carbs.
I enjoyed your blog spot.
Daytona
Neely,
I have used both urine and a ketone meter to monitor my ketones. I don’t get really high values, (like Jimmy) but they are enough to reduce my fasting blood glucose and overall make me feel better. Most days my fasting ketones are between 0.9 – 1.4 (they rise as the day progresses).
I have been successful managing my type 2 diabetes on both a low-carb and ketogenic diet. Just using low-carb I was able to bring my A1C down from 10.7 to 5.3. However, when in ketosis, my readings are extraordinary (fasting < 85, PP < 100).
I am only moderately active now, doing high intensity weight lifting 2x a week for 20 minutes with random walks thrown in. All of my blood glucose control is from my diet, not exercise. I used to enjoy tennis and running but even with my diet changes, have been unable to satisfactorily control my blood glucose and adrenal response. So I stick to what works for me and have enjoyed the increase in strength from the weight lifting.
Dr. Daniel Chong
As a physician, a big fan of Jimmy’s and a fan of many aspects of paleo eating in general, I would say I am not a fan of a ketogenic diet and do not recommend it to anyone as a long term eating plan, except in certain neurological disorders, certain types of cancer and some other very specific disease states. The confusing thing about this diet is that it appears quite beneficial on the surface. Jimmy, for example, is losing weight. In all likelihood, his insulin levels are decreasing and I’m sure his cholesterol panel is looking better and better. That’s great right? Well, there’s no argument that these things commonly happen on a ketogenic diet. But does that mean there is nothing bad happening? Unfortunately, no. Here are some examples of studies and info that have looked “behind the curtain” of seemingly positive effects in the ketogenic diet, to reveal some negatives, some of which would outweigh the positives in my opinion:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21454445
http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/keto_news_november07
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20820038
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8589783
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17904939
Should a truly healthful diet that is truly biologically appropriate for humans have side effects? I don’t believe so.
I also become very, very concerned with people on long term ketogenic diets because of the lack of cancer protective nutrients that can only be found in plants and fruits. Jimmy’s breakfast and all of the menus listed in your article are perfect examples. Nearly zero phytonutrients.
Lastly, I also get very concerned especially with Jimmy’s version of the diet, when I consider the significant load of toxins that will inevitably be present in a menu plan like this. Animal fats bioaccumulate environmental toxins and become significant sources of these things for you if you eat this way. Combine with the severe lack of phytonutrients known to help stimulate detoxification and/or protect our DNA against damage from these toxins and you have a recipe for cancer.
I’m sorry to be such a downer as I know eating this way appears to be helpful to many, but it is NOT the only way to lose weight, and certainly not the safest.
Fitness Wayne | Paleo Health and Weight Loss Blog
I have been experimenting with ketosis lately. In general I follow a paleo diet with lots of fruits and vegetables but two or three days a week I do a 16 hour fast. Theoretically I should be going to ketosis during the fast, I need to buy the strips to find out. I lose a lot of fat when I fast that week.
Josh
Do you agree that Paleo might not be a good idea for athletes or individuals who train at a high intensity?
http://www.stack.com/2012/09/22/what-athletes-need-to-consider-before-going-paleo/
Neely
Josh – No, I absolutely don’t agree with that. I’ve written a lot on this topic and I think it’s totally doable for people to get enough carbs (or fat – whatever route they’re taking to get their requisite energy) on this diet.
Craig Holbrook
I have found over many years of a very low carb way-of-life diet that I can eat an abundance of green vegetables for vitamin and mineral content as well as fiber intake. To this I have been able to add a nice assortment of colored vegetables (carrots, tomatoes. yellow peppers and mushrooms) so long as I exercise a small amount of portion control of these.
Though a very low carb diet generally has me above actual ketosis, it is not hard to intentionally dip into small to moderate ketosis by reducing one’s vegetable intake.
I will say, though, that my experiences have taught me that one’s protein intake can be higher than this article indicates for a ketogenic diet. I would actually differ in the above viewpoint of the article by suggesting a slightly lower fat intake if one wishes to maximize the amount of weight loss on a ketogenic diet. Lower the fat and you will most often encourage your body to metabolize more of its own in search of energy. Really, the only true enemy is the net (aka. impact) carb. And that is very easily limited and controlled when one’s attitude is to primarily eat only green vegetables.
And yes, the picture of the breakfast above looked just awesome to me. I am wondering if the cream is Sour Cream or maybe Clotted Cream spread well.
My two cents if it helps anyone,
Craig
Craig Holbrook
After rushing to post, I read Dr. Daniel Chong’s thoughts. They are most excellent opinion. Yes, phytonutrients seem to be incredibly important. I hope and believe that an array of green vegetables with some other low starch choices of color supply an ample amount of the phytonutrients in one’s diet.
Now, as for animal products bioaccumulating environmental toxins, you got me there. Being a staunch and long-time low-carber–with some paleo leanings–I consume large amounts of beef, chicken and dairy; I really don’t have an answer for the inevitable toxin load that I am most likely acquiring. I don’t wholly trust organically-sourced meats as being much less toxic, and they are prohibitivley expensive even at the seasonal Farmer’s markets which I frequent. Any thoughts, Doctor Chong?
Craig
Ravi Wells
one note – it has been shown (MDA had a good post on this) that the brain can run on the by-products of ketosis but it is not ideal long term–
and this strict no-dairy idea of the more rad paleo community is truly short-sighted – if you are going to accept that conventional wisdom is pretty clueless about nutrition and evolutionary diet – they why does the paleo community accept the clearly mistaken conclusion that no populations of humans were smart or creative enough to domesticate animals that could provide them dairy?
Besides examples like the Lapp people of northern europe that herd WILD reindeer (and have done so as long as they can remember) to access dairy products, genetic studies of goats indicate that there are numerous markers for “domestication events” tens of thousands of years ago – indicating that goats could well have been tamed and easily travelled with HG groups. The ability of some populations to easily digest goat dairy (as opposed to cow) is only really explained by an evolutionary exposure for much more than the conventional domestication timeline.
In short – i believe that paleo diets varied tremendously and that much fat was provided by dairy products in those populations that had dairy –
Here’s my discussion: Goat Dairy is Paleo http://daiasolgaia.com/?p=1302
b-nasty
@Dr Chong
I know this is an older comment, but I did want to point out some noticeable issues with some of those listed studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21454445
This deals only with mice. Mice are a poor proxy in this type of diet study, being herbivores by nature. This study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15561913) shows the well-know effect of feeding a high fat diet to a mouse – far outside what it evolved to eat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20820038
More statistical magic from the Nurses’ Health Study data. Self reported LC diets, and other issues likely plague this data.
Many of the others fall into one or more problem categories. Not enough adaption time or the terrible liquid keto formulas. It’s a well know effect that it can take up to a month to adapt to a low-carb diet (keto flu), but most of these studies show poor performance at 1-4 weeks. Also, some use the Ketocal preparations that contain large amounts of O-6 oils and other questionable ingredients. In addition to the formula, the epilepsy diets used to restrict hydration (to enhance BHB production), so that could be a factor in the kidney stones.
I’m not saying the data is in on the healthfulness of a long-term keto diet, but I also haven’t seen any well-done studies showing it is harmful.
Verona Rylander
Lots of good science/info in Volek and Phinney’s book, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance. It explains what keto-adapted means, among other useful facts. I’ve been wanting to be less sensitive to blood-sugar drops from missing mealtimes and am finding that a higher fat-lower carb diet is helping a lot. I think you still have to pay attention to calories if you want to lean out, at least at my age (64) – not just up that fats. I’ve been following Paleo for at least a year, doing CrossFit 3x/week since August, plus hiking.
ed martinez
My wife has Alzheimer’s and has tried coconut oil. Unfortunately, because of gastrointestinal disorders (irritable bowel syndrome and diverticulosis) she gets severe diarrhea after every dose. Is anyone aware if the intravenous administration of ketones has been tried on A.D. patients?
Heidi
Ed Whilst I am not aware of ketones being administered via IV I am curious to know if you have ever heard of the GAPs diet? You stating that your wife has A.D. along with IBS and diverticulitis are exactly what this diet addresses. There is a book written by Natasha Campbell McBride titled, MD “The Gut and Psychology Diet” (GAPs) that explains exactly how and why to do it. It is for people like your wife.
You may know this (or not) but the reason your wife experiences GI distress with coconut oil is due to its antibacterial properties. When someone suffers from neurological disorders they come from the gut. Leaky gut and gut dysbiosis (too much bad gut bacteria and not enough good). When one starts to heal and seal the gut (by drinking bone broth) and additionally supplementing with probiotics in the form of fermented foods, they must go at it slowly in a step by step process as the introduction of the good bacteria causes die off of the bad and this causes GI distress as well as other feelings of malaise and toxic issues from the gasses from the die off. This is all explained in the writing of Dr. Campbell McBride. In any event, the coconut oil does not come in until later phases in the diet (there are a total of 6).
It would behoove you and your wife to find out about this protocol as it would have more impact on your wife’s condition than following ketogenic diet. Ketongenic is a band aid to what really needs to happen is healing gut wall, die off of bad bacteria and re-inoculation. As a side many (thousands) of kids with autism and aspergers are healing due to the work of Dr. Campbell McBride.
Kenneth
I have been working with colon problems for over 20 years,lost 30 percent of my colon do to cancer,
after surgery I started a diet of vegetable juice,and kefir for one hundred days.
As of today i still eat saturated fats,vegetable juice.RAW kefir raw dairy have been keeping my carbs
down around 50 grams,This healthy eating is not a diet,if you think that way it will never work for you
this is a life style. Good luck to all you pioneers. Blessing
jd
Just my experience… I was able to maintain and monitor ketosis on a fast where I allowed for up to 50g of palm sugar a day. That’s a lot of carbs respectively, but just to highlight each body is different. Palm sugar has a very low glycemic indexand spaced out in tbls over a 15hr day kept ketosis
patti
any suggestions for someone with Rheumatoid Arthritis? I have no idea what to eat. I would like to try a smart diet so I can advoid taking hard core meds. thanks patti
Neely Quinn
Patti – check this post out: http://www.paleoplan.com/2012/12-14/paleo-plans-new-21-day-paleo-cleanse-ebook-now-for-sale/
Crystal
Keto only cares about net carbs. Since many vegetables have a high fiber content they are perfect for keto. In fact, onions have a higher net carb counts than others. I stay away from carrots and potatoes but eat plenty of cauliflower, broccoli, etc. I have done keto a couple times over the course of a couple years and always eat vegetables, tons of spinach and lettuces and even cantaloupe, strawberries, etc. in moderation.